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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: stratovair ()
Date: November 28, 2018 07:33PM

Scan to get as close as possible, and blend into adjacent panels. Standard practice that good shops do every day. You will be fine!

Dave "Turbo" Binnie

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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: streblerm ()
Date: November 29, 2018 04:37AM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GUYS!! Ron is an Auto Painter by trade!!

Well, that makes my post more insulting than I intended. In my defense the “it won’t match unless you paint the whole car” is a well worn trope used by the uninformed and people looking to get something for nothing more often than not.

I still maintain that unless the color was made from some kind of currently unavailable toner it can be recreated.

Hand tinting is definitely time consuming and often uncompensated in flat rate repair but sometimes it is necessary. The camera is a great tool but sometimes it is just the starting point.

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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: Caraholic4life ()
Date: November 29, 2018 02:37PM

I have probably posted this before....but years ago (1989-1991) when I worked for a small independent "Big A Auto" Parts Store, I used to mix paint from time to time.
Being the detail oriented anal individual that I can be, I took my time mixing the paint, to the point that I would sometimes add a color drop by drop to get the scale to read exactly the desired number.
One of our regular customers told me once that "every time he sprayed paint mixed my me, it was a perfect match". I doubt that the statement was the absolute truth but it did make me feel good that he appreciated my effort.
As a clarification, I am partially Color Blind which is why I was always especially careful when mixing paint.
I also have a tendency to notice mismatched paint on vehicles before many others butt if two vehicles are similar colors and parked several feet away, I might think they are the same color when they are not.
I have a Silver 2000 Plymouth convertible that from the factory probably had no less than three different shades of Silver right off the assembly line as the parts were painted off site and brought to the assembly line for installation on the car.

1962 95 F.C. Van
1965 Monza Coupe
Westminster, Maryland

MID ENG enthusiast &
prior Kelmark owner.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2018 02:38PM by Caraholic4life.

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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: Brizo ()
Date: November 29, 2018 06:47PM

Here's a question for any paint pros on the forum. My son had paint mixed for a new front facia and fender on his '07 Monte Carlo. a solid red. It didn't even come close to a match. He went back and the paint store guy says: " well, the paint company has been consolidating formula numbers and using one formula to cover several different solid reds when the formulas are almost the same - it oughta match your color purdy close". Are the paint companies really doing that ??? We ended up having him scan the gas door and the custom mix matched fine.

Dan Brizendine,
'64 8door Greenbrier 140 PG. "In beautiful Wanamaker Indiana...with one stop light and 5 pizza shops"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2018 06:48PM by Brizo.

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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: November 30, 2018 09:56AM

Dan, that does not even make sense, as in paint formulas are written and just take up electronic bits on a hard drive. How much data is saved by combining numbers?

Now, if the store stocked pre-mixed paint, then stocking less numbers is less shelf space needed, but I have not seen "Factory Pack" paint in years. Except when I look at the 30 year old paint on my shelf and see a few cans of R-M lacquer....grinning smiley

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: Brizo ()
Date: November 30, 2018 01:59PM

Frank DuVal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dan, that does not even make sense, as in paint
> formulas are written and just take up electronic
> bits on a hard drive. How much data is saved by
> combining numbers?
>
> Now, if the store stocked pre-mixed paint, then
> stocking less numbers is less shelf space needed,
> but I have not seen "Factory Pack" paint in years.
> Except when I look at the 30 year old paint on my
> shelf and see a few cans of R-M lacquer....grinning smiley

No it doesn't make sense. That's why I doubted if it were true, and wondered if anyone else had been told that.

Dan Brizendine,
'64 8door Greenbrier 140 PG. "In beautiful Wanamaker Indiana...with one stop light and 5 pizza shops"

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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: sweet66monza ()
Date: November 30, 2018 09:21PM

Dan, i have also run into that. Several variances of the same color, based on build date and assembly plant. As the cars get older they condense formulas to one basic code. I have had excellent luck blending when i get to do something new enough for the right variance still in the system.

Cody Hurley
North Idaho (Post Falls)
66 Monza convertible 140/PG, loaded with factory options
66 Corsa factory turbo coupe, 3rd owner fully documented [corvaircenter.com]
65 Monza coupe daily driver 110/4
66 Monza 95/PG coupe project FOR SALE
Also 2 Ford f350 IDI diesels, six Jeep FC 170s, 66 CJ5A, 03 neon, 4 Rokon Trailbreakers, 3 vintage Honda 50cc minibikes, 4 Honda xr350s, and thousands of parts


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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: 4carbcorvair ()
Date: December 01, 2018 11:55AM

Thanks all. And thank you Matt, yes, many years in the body business. Unfortunately sometimes. LOL!!! It seems once people know what you do, you have all kinds of new, temporary friends.

The color is NOT a standard color, there is NO formula for it. It's like someone mixing up a custom color, unless they write down the formula, it's going to be difficult to reproduce it. Kinda like making a spaghetti sauce by just throwing things together and having it come out fantastic! You didn't write down what and how much you put in. Than you try and make it again and it just isn't the same.

I finally found a guy who is willing to give it a shot. No guarantee. At first he said he couldn't do it, he has seen my car before. The challenge intrigued him. I need to get the car to him tho. With the salt on the roads now, I'll have to pick a good day to do so.

--------------------------------
Ronnie
Southern Maine.
www.dirigocorvairs.net
66 Corsa Convertible, 140, 4sp.
65 Monza Convertible, 110, PG.




It doesn't leak, it's marking it's territory.

A mirror is a reflection of the miles travelled.

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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: December 01, 2018 12:18PM

Yeah Ronnie most of us that work on our old cars suddenly end up with "friendly" folks with car problems.

I wear this shirt now ---- [www.amazon.com]





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2018 12:35PM by MattNall.

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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: December 01, 2018 12:37PM

My Fav... long gone.....

Need a loan?

Do I Look like your

YOUR MOTHER?





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: 4carbcorvair ()
Date: December 01, 2018 12:42PM

HAHA!!! Love the shirt!

I did work for my wifes cousin a year ago. I gave her a huge discount as a baby shower gift. I let her know. She came back and wanted some body work done, deer hit the car. She just about croaked when I gave her an actual quote. I'm done giving stuff away. smiling smiley

--------------------------------
Ronnie
Southern Maine.
www.dirigocorvairs.net
66 Corsa Convertible, 140, 4sp.
65 Monza Convertible, 110, PG.




It doesn't leak, it's marking it's territory.

A mirror is a reflection of the miles travelled.

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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: December 01, 2018 02:48PM

I had a room mate with 350 Camero, it was running so bad it would miss whenever you even thought about getting on it, so he drove it like an old farts car. So I did a full tune up for him, added some advance and it took off like a scared rabbit. Forget about giving it any gas on wet roads. Then he @#$%& that I screwed up his gas mileage.


Fast forward, about three years ago my clutch was going bad. Every time the boost would begin the tach jumped but not the car. That summer was the best mileage I ever had since I owned the car.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: Murphy ()
Date: December 01, 2018 05:09PM

"whatever you do, don't paint it refrigerator white!!!winking smileywinking smileywinking smiley

65 Monza Coupe
61 500 Coupe-W100181
Earliest '61?

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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: 4carbcorvair ()
Date: December 02, 2018 06:09AM

Murphy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "whatever you do, don't paint it refrigerator
> white!!!winking smileywinking smileywinking smiley

It originally was. I had to change the color. Worst color evah! LOL!!!!!!

--------------------------------
Ronnie
Southern Maine.
www.dirigocorvairs.net
66 Corsa Convertible, 140, 4sp.
65 Monza Convertible, 110, PG.




It doesn't leak, it's marking it's territory.

A mirror is a reflection of the miles travelled.

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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: streblerm ()
Date: December 06, 2018 04:20AM

Brizo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's a question for any paint pros on the forum.
> My son had paint mixed for a new front facia and
> fender on his '07 Monte Carlo. a solid red. It
> didn't even come close to a match. He went back
> and the paint store guy says: " well, the paint
> company has been consolidating formula numbers and
> using one formula to cover several different solid
> reds when the formulas are almost the same - it
> oughta match your color purdy close". Are the
> paint companies really doing that ??? We ended up
> having him scan the gas door and the custom mix
> matched fine.


Total BS. After formerly working for an automotive paint company I can say with certainty that it is extremely rare to eliminate or “consolidate” any formulas unless there is an error in the formula. Once the formula is created it costs virtually nothing to keep it active.

The paint store was feeding you a story so that they could avoid any responsibility.

It might help to understand how colors are matched. When an OEM decides to make a new color they submit pre production samples to aftermarket paint manufactures which they match. This is before the color is ever put on a car. This is called the “standard” color. Now the OEMs start production. Cars are built in multiple factories using multiple paint manufactures and multiple technologies and application methods. These multiples lead to significant variations in color so after the cars are built aftermarket paint manufacturers obtain samples of e actual colors and match those. These are known as variants. It is not uncommon for there to be double digit variants for each code. This is because the OEMs aren’t really that concerned about maintaining the standard.

A good example of this is bumpers, moldings and handles. These parts are made in separate factories and painted with different kinds of paint. Cars are painted and baked at high temperatures that could melt plastic. Often times those add on parts don’t really match that well. More often than not they are very close to the standard and it is actually the cars that don’t match.

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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: December 06, 2018 04:44AM

streblerm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OEMs aren’t really that concerned
> about maintaining the standard.

True, because standards that are excessively tight are very expensive to maintain. If you have next to zero tolerance for color variations in paint do you know how much cost that would add? Why have a standard tighter (more expensive) than required to sell the cars?

When a customer at work has a tight delta-e spec (color variance metric) it costs far more to hit that target each and every time we do a run because of all the variables involved. Just the process of documenting that we are within the allowable variance can double our production time and time is money.


Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 110 Convertible
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed




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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: TerribleTed ()
Date: December 06, 2018 06:42AM

Brizo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's a question for any paint pros on the forum.
> My son had paint mixed for a new front facia and
> fender on his '07 Monte Carlo. a solid red. It
> didn't even come close to a match. He went back
> and the paint store guy says: " well, the paint
> company has been consolidating formula numbers and
> using one formula to cover several different solid
> reds when the formulas are almost the same - it
> oughta match your color purdy close". Are the
> paint companies really doing that ??? We ended up
> having him scan the gas door and the custom mix
> matched fine.


The consolidating formulas comment sounds like total BS to me as well, however matching a vehicles existing paint (particularly a red) is not easy. As noted above vehicle colors vary from plant to plant and batch to batch. Colors also fade over time (red more than most others). Mixing paint from a formula and color code and actually having it butt match the car has a probability of something like 1 in 200+. In the body business matching is the painters job. The painter gets the color code and then looks at a variance deck of color chips to se which of the identified variances look closest to the actual car. He then mixes that formula and sprays out some of the paint and compares that to the car. He will then go back to the mixing bench and add a little of this and a little of that to tint the color closer to the car. He will make another spray out and repeat the process until by his eye the color is acceptably close. A butt match is virtually impossible. If a match that can not bee seen is needed the adjacent panels on the car are blended into with the color coats and re-cleared. A good auto body supply should be able to tint their formula to a sample supplied by you to get close to the actual color of the car. How close depends on the skill of the mixing technician.

In the Monte Carlo's case the entire nose of the car and the door behind the fender would be painted with blending paint on the opposite fender (for match to the bumper), the hood and the door behind the replacement fender, to attain a seamless repair where color difference will not be apparent to the eye. With red color often another issue arises as well. Many colors (red is one that this is common) will change a little with only the application of additional clearcoats. So even though the blend of new color stopped less than 1/2 back on the door the rear of the door may no longer match the 1/4 panel simply from the clearcoat. There are times when the only option to get a perfect match it to repaint the entire car. Panel to Panel butt matching is generally not possible at all.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Avid Corvair hobbiest since 1984.
I have personally performed ground up restoration on over 20 Corvairs.
I currently work full time at restoring and repairing Corvairs.
Located in the Atlanta Georgia area.
[www.facebook.com]

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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: 4carbcorvair ()
Date: December 06, 2018 09:17AM

What Streblerm said. Next time you drive thru a new car dealer, look at the bumper to fender or bumper to quarter panel color, usually different.

There is a LOT more to color match than most think. It's a science really.


On a good note!!! Last night I went digging thru my paint supply cabinet. Guess what I found?? Left over color!!!! Woooohoooooo!!!!! I'm going with it. smiling smiley

--------------------------------
Ronnie
Southern Maine.
www.dirigocorvairs.net
66 Corsa Convertible, 140, 4sp.
65 Monza Convertible, 110, PG.




It doesn't leak, it's marking it's territory.

A mirror is a reflection of the miles travelled.

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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: iammargarette ()
Date: December 06, 2018 08:50PM

The color is indeed beautiful but then again you don't have a choice but to repaint it so that the damage can be fixed.

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Re: I get to paint my WHOLE car. sad smiley
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: December 06, 2018 09:42PM

Score! I flip my pint can every month.. gg



4carbcorvair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> On a good note!!! Last night I went digging thru
> my paint supply cabinet. Guess what I found?? Left
> over color!!!! Woooohoooooo!!!!! I'm going with
> it. smiling smiley





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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