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increased power/hp
Posted by: jfrese ()
Date: November 23, 2018 07:06PM

I have seen on several sites and Bob Helts' book that raising the crossover tube 3" via a PVC adapter will increase power/hp through improved airflow into the carburetors. My question is: does this really work, and is it a significant or noticeable increase? None of the articles I have read seem to explain why this is so. It seems to be a really simple fix to increase power/hp but I have seen very few cars with this modification. Also, what about inverting the air cleaner top cover for more airflow? I have a 140 and those two "nozzles" seem awfully small to accommodate the necessary airflow for the 4 carburetors. Please Corvair experts, share with me with your knowledge and experience with this situation before I go and invest the time and little expense to perhaps perform a modification that would accomplish no noticeable improvement. Thanks in advance, I lurk your forum almost every day.


'65 Monza vert, 140, 4 spd
Halfway between Knoxville and Gatlinburg

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Re: increased power/hp
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: November 23, 2018 07:15PM

Really GREAT questions!
There have been many claims made, but I would like to know also, has anyone actually done any real data tests on this or just "seat-of-the-pants dyno" ?
The 140 dual snorkels appear to have the same flow as 2 carb venturies.
So how well does it breath when the secondaries open up and flow has doubled to 4 venturies?

.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza - 140 4-spd. driver

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Re: increased power/hp
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 23, 2018 07:33PM

In our FAQ's!! Those that don't check ALL the links miss a lot!!ll

Matt Nall's Tech papers in PLAIN ENGLISH

1 per Warren LeVeque;

a 140 snorkels flow enough air for a 350 ci SBC

b Using stock filter assy... at higher RPM [ 5k and above ] the power will flatten

He cured this by "High-Rising all four.

I found out about it when some DuneBuggies seemed to run alot better when they had the Desert Air Filter System / High Rise to get the Snorkel further away from fly sand / dirt.





What I found was better high speed passing power and Fuel Economy!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: increased power/hp
Posted by: Pacerace ()
Date: November 24, 2018 06:39AM

Engine Masters did a comparison of a bunch of different air cleaners on a V8 engine, and found that straighter air flow into the carb gave more power/torque. When I watched it I thought about the spacers that some put on the Corvair air cleaner and it started to make sense. The spacers may give the air flow enough time to smooth out the turbulance before going through the Venturi.

________________________________________________________

Chandler
Powder Springs, GA.



1965 Corvair Monza 110/4sp Coupe

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Re: increased power/hp
Posted by: gnrand ()
Date: November 24, 2018 07:49AM

I think directing the intake air filter snorkels toward the incoming fresh air would be beneficial. I am sure someone has done this; maybe even adding small electric fans.

Wildomar,Ca

1965 Corsa Hard Top
!965 Corsa Convertible
1968 Monza 140 Convertible 4 speed
1966 435 HP Crown
1986 Buick GN

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Re: increased power/hp
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 24, 2018 07:53AM

Only in Hot areas







MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: increased power/hp
Posted by: stitch ()
Date: November 24, 2018 08:03AM

[autoxer.skiblack.com]

Complete set-up! smileys with beer

Edit...Sorry Matt, didn't notice your link above...

"If you can't fix it with a Hammer, you have an Electrical problem."
Stitch...
Schertz, Texas.
(Smallish town/burg 17 mi. NE of San Antonio)

!967.. 4th body
8th off the line



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2018 08:05AM by stitch.

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Re: increased power/hp
Posted by: Pacerace ()
Date: November 24, 2018 08:30AM

gnrand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think directing the intake air filter snorkels
> toward the incoming fresh air would be beneficial.
> I am sure someone has done this; maybe even adding
> small electric fans.


The Corvair engine compartment actually stays pretty close to ambient temps while the engine in running because of the fan pulling in air. They do heat soak pretty good once the engine stops, but the air cools back off once it's starts flowing again in my experience.

________________________________________________________

Chandler
Powder Springs, GA.



1965 Corvair Monza 110/4sp Coupe

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Re: increased power/hp
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: November 25, 2018 10:33AM

I did away with the snorkel altogether and use 4 K&N filters.



Amazon

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2018 10:36AM by BobV66Vair.

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Re: increased power/hp
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 25, 2018 10:42AM

Correct Bob... but for those that want to remain "Stock Looking" !!


Also I specialize in "Cheapest / easiest / BUT RELIABLE" ways of doing thing..

Back in the 60's as a teenager many things were not available that we have today.. so you did it yourself....and going to school, working part time, Girlfriend, Church and Street racing..... left little time for "fine tuning"!!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: increased power/hp
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: November 25, 2018 10:59AM

The other issue with individual air cleaners is the correct
plumbing for the PCV system.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC

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Re: increased power/hp
Posted by: stitch ()
Date: November 25, 2018 11:57AM

Richard1 seems to think that K&N filters are as effective as a screen door. Just sayin'...confused smiley

"If you can't fix it with a Hammer, you have an Electrical problem."
Stitch...
Schertz, Texas.
(Smallish town/burg 17 mi. NE of San Antonio)

!967.. 4th body
8th off the line

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Re: increased power/hp
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: November 25, 2018 12:20PM

stitch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Richard1 seems to think that K&N filters are as
> effective as a screen door. Just sayin'...confused smiley


That is correct, Richard1 is a believer in the stock system.
When I was driving for a living, I used to hear guys state that K&N's were responsible for *STD's!

*STD,: Sudden Turbo Death

The reasoning was that, the open free-breathing gauze used in K&N filters allows dirt particle through that are large enough to sandblast away you turbo impeller.

.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza - 140 4-spd. driver

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Re: increased power/hp
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 25, 2018 12:33PM

On American paved roads today... filtering is not as important as it was decades ago...





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: increased power/hp
Posted by: jfrese ()
Date: December 01, 2018 08:29PM

Thank you Matt . What I was looking for was actual perceived results after performing this mod. Your results were not listed in the FAQ's. You can perform many mods but if it doesn't improve anything, why bother?


'65 Monza vert, 140, 4 spd
Halfway between Knoxville and Gatlinburg

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Re: increased power/hp
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: December 01, 2018 08:53PM

Correct.... or if you'll seldom take advantage of it...why bother..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: increased power/hp
Posted by: Charlie Kelly ()
Date: December 01, 2018 09:19PM

I see that nobody already stated why raising the air cleaner increases flow but it's quite simple, air doesn't like to turn at a 90 degree angle and doing so creates turbulence right in the air horn of the carb. Imagine what all those old straight sixes could do with ITBs.

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Re: increased power/hp
Posted by: Max Roeder ()
Date: December 02, 2018 04:40AM

The long side of the snorkel is the problem area because the incoming air wants to pile up in that area. The air on the short side wants to join the long side resulting a biased volume towards the outside wall. Turning a ninety degree angle creates a turbulent flow which slows down the air velocity. By raising the snorkel the air has more time to equalize the volume towards the short side. There is a length of rise which would be optimum but I'm not one to state what it would be.

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Re: increased power/hp
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: December 02, 2018 08:50AM

On the subject of air cleaners Mike Dawson on his LM Sport Sedan PG 110HP uses a hose to connect the
air inlet from the front of the engine compartment almost providing a "ram air" effect, He told me it did
provide more performance though I do not know if he ever did any formal testing.

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Re: increased power/hp
Posted by: jfrese ()
Date: December 02, 2018 09:02PM

I will definitely be doing the intake rise on my car in the near future but first I have to get my carbs back from Ratt 643. When I get my car running well I will do this mod and report back.


'65 Monza vert, 140, 4 spd
Halfway between Knoxville and Gatlinburg

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